By Maggie Lovitt
He also spoke about how they chose who to execute.
With only two episodes remaining, the eighth episode of Star Trek: Picard Season 3 neatly dispatched with the season's central antagonist—Vadic (Amanda Plummer)—paving the way for Jean-Luc Picard (Patrick Stewart) and the remaining crew of the Titan to face off against the real threat, though the who has not yet been revealed. The episode ends on a rather major cliffhanger, with Deanna Troi (Marina Sirtis) helping Jack Crusher (Ed Speleers) finally open the ominous red door, in hopes that it will answer what, or who, the looming darkness is.
Ahead of the premiere of "Surrender," Collider had the opportunity to speak with Picard showrunner Terry Matalas about the Easter eggs, his favorite moments, how Deanna Troi's abilities have evolved, crafting Worf's (Michael Dorn) rescue of Deanna and Riker (Jonathan Frakes), in addition to a few major teases about where things are headed following Vadic's swift demise.
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COLLIDER: So, at the start of Episode 8, Vadic is so cool, calm, collected, and sinister in that opening scene. In particular, I really liked the reflection that the director set up in the shot, it looks really cool the way that works. I'm curious what factored into this decision for Vadic to be sitting there smoking and looking so in control of everything. It's such a good staged scene.
TERRY MATALAS: I mean, what could be more chilling than your villain being in command of your ship, absolutely calm, smoking her weird alien cigarette, and shutting down systems one by one? It felt like there's no better way. I think that first image came from Sean Tretta, of her face reflected in the stars, and I think that was from just being on set and seeing that dome. I think, if I recall correctly, that was a Sean special.
It looked very cool. It very much set the tone for the rest of the episode, as well. What went into the decision about who Vadic was going to execute? I really liked how it was dragged out, and then it was a surprise.
MATALAS: Well, Stephanie [Czajkowski], who I adore, is a friend of mine, who plays T'Veen, was such a standout character that I knew it would hurt a bit, and it needed to hurt in that moment. To feel good for Vadic to get sucked out of the airlock and die by the end, you needed to feel pain in the beginning. So, we went round and round, and, unfortunately, T'Veen ended up on the chopping block.
Yes. I commend you that there are no red shirts involved.
MATALAS: There's no red, there's no red. But the good news is, eight episodes is not bad. She made it through eight episodes. But that doesn't mean T'Veen doesn't have a sister out there somewhere.
Exactly, a twin.
MATALAS: A twin somewhere.
I know at the end of Episode 6, we got the briefest reunion between Deanna and Riker, but what went into the decision to build that anticipation and have it be in Episode 8 rather than tease it at all in Episode 7?
MATALAS: It's just real estate. We initially had them in seven, as well, but cutting between the Rikers' and Vadic's monologue was killing Vadic's monologue, and killing the Rikers. It was breaking up the stories in ways that [were] not helping either one of them. Same thing with Raffi and Worf. We had Raffi and Worf's story in seven, and it was hurting Raffi and Worf to cut back to Vadic. So, at some point, you have to say, ‘We have to just pick a story.’ So, we decided seven was going to be the Vadic story. That was going to be Amanda Plummer's swan song. That's life in the big city. That's how it goes [laughs].
Sometimes you have to kill your darlings
MATALAS: Yes, it's hard. It's so hard, because [there are] so many great ideas and so many great things that go, but you don't have all the time and money to do it.
Yes. The dialogue in the Worf/Riker/Deanna reunion is just so great. I really appreciate the cadence, the humor, the emotion. It's so good. Can you talk a little bit about that scene? Because I feel like fans are really going to love that reunion.
MATALAS: The Worf/Deanna moment in [Star Trek: The Next Generation], where they were a couple, hadn't really been touched on. And I just love the idea that in the rescue, after he's had this journey to Zen, he can't wait to tell Deanna about it. He's just not even looking at Will. They all play it so perfectly. Frakes is the straight man, just sitting there, looking back and forth. It’s fantastic. I wasn't sure if it was going to work. Now, I know it works, and the cut, it makes me laugh every time. She's fantastic. Troi's fantastic. Marina is so good, she's always good with the comedy. I wish there was more of it, to be honest with you.
It's a great scene. I really cannot wait to see Twitter go crazy over it when the episode drops because I know they will. Since she's brought up in the episode, are we going to hear anything else about Kestra? Where she is, what she's up to?
MATALAS: The way we looked at it, she's very likely in early admission Starfleet Academy. So, safe and sound, unaware that her parents are in jeopardy.
Okay, good. I know people are going to be concerned about her whereabouts.
MATALAS: They're definitely going to. We had it in there, but again, it just didn't fit in with the dialogue. [There are] so many things you put in that fans are like, ‘Why didn't you just say this?’ You have it in there, and it sounds like garbage. We had that line in there, and, ‘Thank God, Kestra is alive and well and at Starfleet Academy…’ It just sounds terrible, so you take it out.
Yeah, unfortunately, in television, you have to make sure you make the most out of the dialogue that you have time for.
MATALAS: Yeah.
With the Data and Lore sequence, how were each of his memories chosen, particularly the one with Tasha Yar? I really appreciated seeing the little bitty Tasha.
MATALAS: We had so many to choose from. Tasha Yar, again, if this is the final Next Generation story, we had to honor her in some way. If you had 13 episodes, you would've tried to find a way to do Sela. If you come back and do another spinoff, you're going to do Sela. But, in this case, it was, ‘How can we do it in a classy way that would be meaningful?’ That's how we did it.
You mentioned Vadic going out of the airlock, which is such a fun scene. Can you talk a little bit about the construction of that moment?
MATALAS: Yeah, yeah. Well, I didn't think we would be able to pull it off, visual-effects-wise, because it felt prohibitively expensive. But we have a brilliant team that was able to do it. In fact, when the writers pitched it to me, I was like, ‘Are you guys crazy? We can't do that.’ Then, to have her explode against the hull of the Shrike. I think, if I remember correctly, we were at the end of the season, I might have gotten really mad in the writers' room, being like, ‘Guys,’ but, it is undeniably satisfying to watch it happen.
In the episode, [there are] not a lot of space battles or anything, so maybe you could save your pennies to make it work? So, that's what we did. It definitely signals she's dead, which the audience should be going, ‘Well, wait a second, she's dead, you blow up the Shrike, we still have two episodes left... What's going on?’ So, that was the thought process. It is definitely how you would kill the big boss, yet, what's going on?
Yes. Maybe it's the face boss thing. It’s the big boss.
MATALAS: Face Boss is coming.
We also got another little F-bomb again.
MATALAS: Got one more, got one more, yeah. I forget what writer pitched it. This was the only written F-bomb in the season, but it was just kind of great.
It's so great. This whole episode is so funny. The one-liners are so good.
MATALAS: My favorite is the Chacho-Picard bit where, once again, someone has slagged on, ‘...which you said it was too dry because your taste in wine is pedestrian at best,’ and it's like, definitely Picard. That's my favorite joke in the bit. Because he finally gets the bite back on it. I forget whose joke it was, but it was pretty satisfying.
It's a great moment. There's also the hilarious line that Data says to get rid of the protoplasms, or something.
MATALAS: Oh, your monologuing protoplasms, or something?
Fantastic one-liner there. Maybe this is just my recollection of The Next Generation and the time that's passed, but it seems like Deanna has gotten a lot more capable in her abilities, as well. She definitely seems more advanced, especially with the way she enters into Jack's mind and helps him with this door. Have her abilities just evolved naturally over the last 20 years?
MATALAS: We asked ourselves that, too. We always knew at the beginning of the season that Deanna Troi was going to be the one who unlocks that door. She's going to be the one that puts it all together. We only had Marina for a limited amount of time. We knew that we would have her for, essentially, the last four episodes, and we developed the story to make that happen. So, we wanted to put her in the space of that unlocking, so it feels like you want to do that visually and not strictly through talking through it. Although, she is sitting across from Jack, but she is visualizing much more than she does.
Once again, I thought that Shaw was done for at the end of seven when you see him just drop the blood and stuff. I was really happy that he's still alive. Can you talk a little bit about this dynamic that you're playing with Seven and Shaw, and the fact that he will not call her the name that she wants to be called?
MATALAS: I don't know how conscious he is of it sometimes. Because he shows her a tremendous amount of respect at the end of this episode, which is, ‘Hansen, you take this one.’ He lets her blow up the Shrike. So, there's a mentorship there because they just had that disagreement about consequences and whatnot. He wants her to be great. In that moment, allowing her to have that satisfaction. Right? So, I don't think him not calling her Seven in that moment is him withholding, consciously, anything. I think he sort of has his own demons that just stop him from doing that. But we'll see what happens.
What went into that reunion scene in the Ready Room? Was there any intentionality about where everyone sits, the dynamics at play, what's said, what isn't said? What went into that?
MATALAS: No, other than I wish we had time to make it longer, and they could say more. Other than we know we wanted Deanna and Beverly across from each other so that they could hold hands in that moment. Aside from that, what is interesting was that Michael Dorn had decided, in this moment of nostalgia, that he would be the only one who wasn't entirely touched that Data had returned. In his mind, he was like, ‘Whatever, this isn't our Data. I don't care about the robot.’ That was kind of funny. So, in that scene, as Data's talking, he's kind of like, ‘All right, whatever. Let's just get to the meeting,’ if you really look at it, which is funny. So, there's some road to travel with those two characters, if you ever bring them back.
Are we going to see any deeper reunions between these smaller groups of characters? Or are we warp-speeding to the big thing now?
MATALAS: There's not a lot of stopping, like, ‘Hey, haven't seen you in a while.’ There's none of that. But, yes, there are scenes of individual characters. There's a really nice moment in the next episode with Data and Picard that is, I think, lovely. There's an intense Troi, Beverly, and Picard scene. Data and Geordi have a whole lot in these final two hours.
As they should.
MATALAS: The whole gang together, it has a whole lot of stuff together.
Very good.
MATALAS: It's a final Next Gen movie, these last two.
Excellent. I think that's what people are really looking forward to. I feel like this episode has more Easter eggs than Episode 7 did, specifically because we have these Data memories that are great little callbacks. Are there any that you think maybe people won't notice or ones that you're particularly fond of in this episode?
MATALAS: No, but I am impressed at how we nailed Spot.
Spot was great.
MATALAS: I think they're pretty much out there, upfront and center, throughout the episode.
Do you have any favorite moments in Episode 8?
MATALAS: My favorite moment is, I love when Seven destroys the Shrike. I love when Vadic gets sucked out of the airlock, and I love the Riker/Troi scenes quite a bit. I think Frakes and Marina are so phenomenal in this episode. I think Brent is incredible playing against himself, and I love the moment when Brent turns to all of them and says, ‘I know that previous Data is resting comfortably, but this one would rather be nowhere else in the galaxy,’ and the theme comes up. That feels like now we have committed to a full reunion at the end of Episode 8, I quite like.
What can you tease for Episode 9, the penultimate episode?
MATALAS: All questions will be answered.
I think that's what most people are waiting for as well.
MATALAS: Yes, I would say almost every question is answered in Episode 9 as we rocket into the two-hour finale.
